Ryan holiday ego is the enemy podcast12/17/2022 I wasn’t coming to this book from a place of, “Oh, I’ve achieved egolessness, and let me guide you on some spiritual journey.” What I was talking about or what I’m trying to talk about is the way in which ego holds us back and the problems that it causes that I’ve seen not only in my own life and in my research, which you know I try to ground my books in sort of historical, deep historical research, but also, you know, I was a Director of Marketing in American Apparel, which was at one point a very high-flying company and was publicly-traded and is now recently emerged from bankruptcy court. Ryan: Yeah, I definitely wasn’t coming to this as-and in fact, if I was, I think it would be pretty egotistical. Michael: And that’s a humbling, ego-deflating approach already, but I’m curious to know what was it about your life and what’s going on for you that made you go, “If this is the thing I need to learn, let me write something about it. Michael: Which is you teach what you most need to learn. Well, here’s what I get told often enough. As Bill Walsh, he says, “It’s when confidence becomes arrogance, when assertiveness becomes obstinacy.” You know, I’m talking about when we cease to live in reality and we live in a world of our own illusions and self-importance. I’m referring to sort of the colloquial idea of ego. ![]() I’m not referring to egotism or, you know, which can be in some cases a psychological diagnosis as well. Ryan: Well, I’m not referring to the ego, which is obviously a psychological term. So when you say ego, because it’s a word that many people use but it has a sort of slippery or variable definition. So let’s dive into that, because you started off already kind of distinguishing that we’re not talking about lack of confidence necessarily, but talking about something else. So I wanted to take a stand against this world where everyone needs to have a personal brand that’s as big and as brash and as popular as humanly possible, and instead maybe focus on something a little bit different and more meaningful. You know, the sort of things that I think are ultimately not only what society needs but what truly gets stuff done behind the scenes. I wanted to sort of take a stand against that and, in contrast, hold up the quieter virtues of humility and self-awareness and hard work and passing on credit. Obviously there’s plenty of haters and critics out there, but I also feel like-and my brethren in the sort of authors’ space are guilt of this, of sort of an endless amount of encouragement, telling people that they’re amazing all the time, that all they need to do is dare greatly or have some profound vision and that sort of success will naturally ensue. I’m taking a stand against the sort of artifice that we have built up as a culture. Ryan: I wanted to take a stand-I mean, obviously against ego, not confidence. You know, as I ask all my guests, what are you taking a stand against? What are you no longer tolerating? What’s pushed you to talk about and write about ego is the enemy? ![]() Michael: Alright, Ryan, I’ve blown the trumpets, I’ve played the drums, I’ve issued you onto stage in a kind of non-ego-led sort of way, but let’s kick us off.
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